Watch Huth, #4
First of all, apologies for not writing as regularly as usual. I’ve been working on a new project which you can find at BoleynGround.com. It’s shaping up to be a historical photo archive of the Boleyn Ground and Upton Park, so if you’re sitting on any photos you’re particularly proud of, whatever era, please do send them in.
It was the news that Avram has been charged with his comments about the referee, Mike Jones, after our disappointing FA Cup clash with Stoke at the weekend, that woke me from my blogging slumber.
I recently wrote elsewhere that Slur Alex Ferguson needs to start showing more respect (in light of his outburst at the officials that took charge of their defeat to Chelsea). I still stand by those comments. United expect everything to go their way (Rooney elbow) and when it doesn’t (Chelsea away) they lose their rag.
The situation with Avram is very different. It is a well known fact that Avram Grant very rarely explodes into a sea of emotion, so well known that it’s become a matter of genuine frustration for many West Ham fans. It’s not in his character, it would seem, to make unqualified, unsubstantiated and and unreasonable criticism about the performance of a ref unless it was fully and wholly justified.
Against Stoke it was.
The performance by Mike Jones was as bias and incompetent as I’ve ever seen. Not that it excuses our own performance on the day, we were poor. It was a disgrace and a full on kick to the nethers for every West Ham fan (4,500) who had spent the money on tickets, petrol, mini-buses, coaches, trains…whatever means necessary to get there. Ruined entirely by a limp referee who undoubtedly was told to buck up his ideas by Pulis at half-time, after allowing our goal that many believed to be fair and others a handball.
There was no such doubt about the NFL style blocking tactic adopted for Stoke’s first goal (in fact everything about it was NFL – long throw & blockers). Mike Jones, it was blatant and you missed it.
There was no such doubt about Etherington’s dive. He cheated. Mike Jones, you fell for it (I wonder if Matty has paid back that £800K we loaned him to pay of debt?)
There was no such doubt about the intentional foul to haul Hitz out of the wall for their second goal. Mike Jones, it was clear as day and you missed it.
There was no such doubt about the rugby tackle on Tomkins in the Stoke penalty area. Mike Jones, there are no more words.
We were rubbish but Avram, and every fan up there, is fully justified to believe that after that anonymous performance, Mike Jones you’ve cost us a place in the FA Cup semi-final.
But of course it’s superb to see a new underdog in the semi-final. It’s great that Stoke, a team of such footballing pedigree, beauty and honesty, have reached this stage of the competition.
So, how would I plead if I was Avram? Personally it’s about time that referees were accountable for their behaviour. And, if Avram decides to give the FA both barrels, I’d be fully behind it. Something needs to change. Or we’ll see more arrogant refereeing displays as they’re fully in the knowledge that none of their decisions will come under full and proper scrutiny by anyone other than the fans…and we all know we mean nothing to the FA. “You all need to show more respect”
Give us a reason to.
Grow up. You lost a hard fought game. I’ve plenty of friends who are West Ham fans who conceded that Stoke were the better team and you lot didn’t show up.
Let’s face it, had Mike Jones not allowed your ‘goal’ Stoke would have been out of sight anyway. The only reason it was level at half time was because your centre forward was allowed to catch the ball before scoring. You had barely got out of your half before that!
You lost a game of football to a better team on the day. Just accept that happens every now and then. I’ve never heard so much rubbish.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I’m sure if you read it through, I also concede that we were rubbish.
We didn’t help ourselves
But your tactics with pre-medidated fouls are not within the spirit of the game. But by all means, if you want to win like that, be my guest
The point in what I’m writing is that Grant had every right to complain, the ref was awful (if it makes you feel better, for both sides) and the FA should thoroughly consider how they act in situations like this. Instead of just charging outspoken managers
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You say the referee allowed
“our goal that many believed to be fair and others a handball.”
Love to know who these people are who think that goal was okay – presumably you think Thierry Henry’s one against Ireland should have been allowed.
Bottom line – I agree the ref was poor. That goal, our second goal and the penalty decision he got wrong. The first goal I think you are struggling to justify poor defending.
The equaliser changed the match because your team was being totally outplayed at that point.
I understand you’re upset, but you deserved to lose. Period.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Viedo replays are inconclusive. 1 angle looks like definite handball, another looks definitely on his chest/ shoulder.
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Coming from a team who’s biggest weapon is the ability of rory delap’s hands
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You’d better hope you get 6 points too then…we’re only three behind you
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I’m a West Ham fan. Stoke play how they alwyas play, a physical game. They are pretty dirty and it does appear that they pracise ‘cheating’ on the training pitch.
Rgeardless, they deserved the win. We didn’t turn up, you can blame the ref etc but the reason we are not in the semi’s is that we just were not good enough. Mike Jones did not cost us a place.
Avram knows the rules, slag off the ref and youre going to be charged.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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I certainly agree with you mate, we weren’t good enough.
How that line was supposed to read was that had decisions gone as they should have, we could have found ourselves in the semi-final despite our poor performance. Perhaps, above, it’s a little poorly worded!
COYI
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Certain decisions did not help you, true. But the equaliser certainly did!
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Stoke play dirty. Did you actually attned the game? If not check out the stats. Oh and by the way the second goal came off Scotty Parker who i have to admit as a Stoke fan I admire but he’s as dirty a player as anyone and when he is taken out of the game like on Sunday, West ham don’t have a clue!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Is Pullis getting done for his verbal assault at half time? That was caught on camera and directed at the official and not just a comment to a direct question as Grants was.
Feel very very aggreaved by this. And we were not beaten by the better team and if we ever are, I am the first to admit it.
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Stoke were by far the better team
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Stoke being more NFL than Football issue aside.
Surely, anyone in Avram’s position has a strong case of oppression of freedom of speech under European Law. Should take the case to a higher authority and force the FA to examine the situation’s components. Which are the.referee’s 5th rate performance and Stoke’s premeditated cheating.
The fact that a team rehearses premeditated fouls to con a referee is a far more important issue than Avram’s “outburst” (hardly) or the fact that some refs are shit.
If saying “the ref was shit” is bringing a game into disrepute then that freekick is a far heavier offence.
I have no sour grapes about the result. We lost. Played poorly against a team we hammered 1 week previously. But when it transpires that the only way Stoke saw to overturn our superiority was to cheat, and they conspired to do so, yet they get no punishment I lose even more of the little faith I had in the limp FA.
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No sour grapes at all. Your team sat on the training ground and designed a move solely to con a referee. Not a “heat of the moment” incident. But a pre planned set piece created to con a referee and to cheat a way to success.
Standing in front of a keeper on a Delap throw is one thing. Pulling and blocking players to create the very hole n the defence that the freekick was aimed at is quite another.
It is cheating. Premeditated cheating.
If you have no problem with your team blatantly cheating, then more power to you. I, and most other WHU fans, would be up in arms if my team was trying to dismantle the very fabric of the game I love.
For the record, the “game I love” is Football. Not rugby. Or NFL. Just so’s you know.
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I don’t often take issue with these matters but Sunday was an absolute shambles.
Point 1: West Ham didn’t turn up until the 2nd half. I agree. let’s move on, Stoke deserved to win, no sour grapes, blah. The game became farcical however due to the inability of the ref to keep from making rash decsions
Point 2: Pulis is getting off scott free for having a go at the official at half time and Avram isn’t. Fundamentally that isn’t fair.
Point 3: How Stoke can be awarded a penalty for that non-challenge on Etherington (my formerly beloved Etherington, I might add) and yet completely miss the ‘challenge’ on Tomkins I’ll never know.
Point 4: Stoke are brilliant at cheating and getting away with it (as the video on this blog shows). It’s digusting, it doesn’t surprise me that there were empty seats there on Sunday, I wouldn’t pay money to watch that every week. There shouldn’t be a place in football for this.
Point 5: When was the last time Stoke scored from open play? What if they run out of injections to put in Delap’s shoulders to keep him throwing? Utterly terrible ‘foot’baller.
Maybe it is sour grapes, maybe we should move on and concentrate on PL survival (ideally at Stoke’s expense), but sometimes people should stand up and have a say on what is right and what is so clearly wrong. Avram isn’t excluded from this and I hope he fights the FA every step of the way.
Rant over.
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There is no point I arguing with Stoke fans they are dirty on the pitch as they were down Green st the other week , attacking families with children . My Only hope is that they get dragged into the mire now and go down and we stay up , thats justice served imho
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I heard about that. Attacking people who were with their kids. Scum.
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If it’s true, report it to the police. Strange how it has been reported by NO-ONE.
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How do you know it was reported by ‘NO-ONE’?. You don’t, do you?
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Yep. The police did nothing. And your lot caused no trouble
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtF1DZx2G58
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It was reported. The people involved were surrounded by police on horses.
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cleary that is wrong but how stupid are you that you pigeon hole all stoke fans and the team because of a few bellends.
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Poor ol’ Martin Ratcliffe can you find no other words to defend your team or perhaps even you can’t defend the indefensible
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This Stoke fan seems repetitive, dull and has little understanding of football etiquette.
What a surprise.
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This bias lazy twat didn’t watch the game. The ref missed the blatant handball by piquionne and it was he handled to ball with his arm. The fact matty etherington was hacked down on plenty of occassions by de costa who only got a yellow card. Parker wtf he might as well have stayed on your bench and never in the game. Parker was the reason you lost and won in the league. He dominated the midfield in the game before and stoke countered that in the fa cup match. It is so funny how you cockney arsenal wannabe’s give it large when you win 1 game. You may be 3 points behind us but you still in the bottom three. How many of them players are you going to have at the club next season when you get relegated. With the two nob heads who own your club
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It’s smell like frustration from West Ham. If your players can’t deal with physical game, they must try danse or theater.
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We can deal with a physical game, we can’t deal with pre-meditated cheating
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SAM H is the greatest comic in the universe. Goal with hands, not a cheating ? I wait to see the score of your baby dolls against Spurs saturday and against Man utd next week, hahaha, and blame the ref if you loose. You can start to blame now.
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Ffs Stoke fans, watch our goal again from a proper angle and you’ll see it doesn’t look like handball at all, grow a brain before you comment ffs.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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i have to concede mike jones had a bit of a shocker he lost control early in the game and was influenced by the obvious mistake in the first half missing the handball. however the first goal and nfl block i hardly think so this sort of thing happens all the time from corners and you see players being in groups to make sure the target man gets free walters hardly made contact with upson he just got in his way. and the second goal admittedly wasnt fair play but the amount of times i have seen players from teams such as arsenal diving and fiening injury to gain an advantage is ridiculous.
Stop moaning about a game you were dominated in and played worse football in.
and hammerton if you honestly believe that it wasnt handball you are the one that needs a brain it quite clearly hits his bicep and what the fuck is a proper angle ??
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Fellow Hammers
PLease dont give these Neaderthals the time of day
I,ve always had a soft spot for Stoke City but i,m afraid no more
Tactics and physicality is fine but blatant cheating time and time again is no fun
I just cantbe bothered to say anymore , just not worth my time .
Disgusting
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HAMMERTRON needs urgent eyes and brain surgery like all others West Ham fans.
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Seems like all the Stoke fans posting here just slag off West Ham and West Ham fans.
I haven’t seen any of them comment in response to the Stoke ‘anti-football’ points that are posted. I haven’t seen any constructive pints being made relating to how a game of football is played – e.g. I notice no responses to the challenges posted about Stoke not scoring from open play.
I assume thats because Stoke fans cannot respond to or defend the criticisms about their anti- football/NFL/rugby/cheating (delete any if not applicable) way of playing. Boring and boorish.
Not just anti-football but also anti-entertainment.
COYI
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pretty poor ref for both teams. However the match stats from the sun newspaper the next day are interesting.
stoke thugs 5 fouls
west ham angels 16 fouls
stoke thugs 2 yellow cards
west ham angels 3yellow cards
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That’s because he missed all the Stoke fouls!
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And he missed them because Stoke practice them in training so they know how to get away with said fouls.
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Stoke fans let’s make this clear and simple for you shall we? West ham did not play well enough to win the game. Yes it was handball after seeing all the replays, But pulling a defender out of the way with both hands is called a foul, fact! Diving for a penalty is cheating fact! (ethrington has already been quoted saying I thought the ref would give us something, I felt a touch) well feeling a touch and actually being tackled and going down are completly different! When tomkins was thrown to the floor (he did not feel a touch but actually being physically lifted off the pitch) that is called a foul and normally a penalty follows, but not on this occasion! After giving you the penalty surely the ref has made up for the mistake, not his fault that you missed it, so please explain every decision going stokes way, hence non-fouls going against us, which explains the stats that some so-called Stoke fan brought up, I also notice that not one Stoke fan has commented on the cheating tactics they their club seem to be deploying in games, but instead just want to slag of west ham and their fans. Time to open your eyes boys, your three points above us, in the same shit as we are, yet don’t know football and the way it should be played, no class and no shame! Wake up and grow up, surely you want better for your club, or don’t you have any pride – win at all cost!
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I totally agree with your comments but have a question to pose everyone. People are saying the ref fell for Marty’s dive but i have another opinion. At the start of the second half Mike Jones is seen talking to etherington purposely turning his back to everyone. We know up until stokes 2nd goal everything was given their way I wonder how far would jones go to try and even up the odds on a mistake that actually could have gone either way with our goal? or Is it all coincidence
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West Ham fans unable to look honestly their team is really bad. If Stoke was anti-football, they couldn’t play in premier league. look the stats of the matchs west ham play and enjoy how they are weak. When Spurs and United will explode your muppets band, don’t blame the ref, the weather, the pitch or opposite team. Blame your poor team. Don’t let the tears in your eyes stop you to see the reality.
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I’ll quite happily compare our current league form to yours.
I know who should be more worried.
I’m not going to say we’ll beat United or Spurs.
But your run-in isn’t easy either. Just be careful.
(WestHamARE, not WestHamIS)
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What happened, surely, was this:
1) the referee missed one of the most blatant handballs since Maradona’s Hand of God.
2) Pulis suggested to him that he might like to watch the replay on the TV in the referee’s dressing room
3) the referee saw he had made a massive error and decided the only way he could even things up was to award any soft decisions to Stoke when given the chance
4) He had the chance (OK not even I think it was a foul but Etherington went down) 15 seconds into the half, but in fact it didn’t matter because the penalty was missed.
5) West Ham’s defenders naively allowed two Stoke players to stand in the MIDDLE of their wall, and did not put anybody behind them (What did they think was going to happen?!)
End of.
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1a) Stoke deployed blockers for their first goal, allowing Huth to latch onto the pass from your quarterback
Correction* 1) The most blatant handball that still looks like it hit his chest from the angle behind the goal.
Correction* 5) It was still a pre-meditated, tactical foul. But you’re right we shouldn’t naively not prepare for that against Stoke.
6) The ref then failed to award West Ham a penalty for a rugby tackle on Tomkins.
7) West Ham still played badly
Now it’s end of.
But it’s not really, is it? Your lot will be doing exactly the same thing against Newcastle.
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As someone has just very rightly pointed out.
How can we expect Stoke fans to see that they cheated, when Etherington himself fails to see it?
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SAM H, no life ? I let you alone behind your screen and remember that : STOKE are far better than west ham. Looser you are, looser you stay.
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I doubt I’m looser than you mate.
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Did a Stoke fan just come out with Stoke are better than west ham??? After how many top flight seasons behind you??? Oh and Learn to spell you ignorant twat!
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And still no response about the Stoke style of play yet! Simply no defending it then!
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As the great Brian Clough once said – “As far as I’m concerned you can throw all those gold medals – all those pots and pans you’ve won in the bin, because you won them all by cheating”
Now if you want to show any respect to the great Stoke City of yore – Sir Stanley and Banks and Eastham, try to play football simply on the floor, the ‘Forest’ way and not cheat. Because that is what you do – and anything you achieve by it is meaningless and utterly worthless.
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